ArchWiki:Requests - ArchWiki

# ArchWiki:Requests

Is the wiki missing documentation for a popular software package or coverage of an important topic? Or, is existing content in need of correction, updating, or expansion? Write your requests below and share your ideas...

See ArchWiki:Reports to report questionable contributions. Please sign your edits and feel free to comment on others' requests.

## General requests

Inaccurate content
  Pages flagged with Template:Accuracy.
Outdated content
  Pages flagged with Template:Out of date.
Irrelevant or unhelpful content
  Pages flagged with Template:Deletion.
Incomplete content
  Pages flagged with Template:Expansion.
Content with language or style issues
  Pages flagged with Template:Style.
Duplicate effort or overlapping scope
  Pages flagged with Template:Merge.
Misleading names
  Pages flagged with Template:Moveto.
Poor translations
  Pages flagged with Template:Bad translation.
Incomplete translations
  Pages flagged with Template:Translateme. See also ArchWiki Translation Team.
Incomplete content
  Pages flagged with Template:Stub.
Dead or broken links
  Pages flagged with Template:Dead link. Should be repaired or replaced.
Templates with an undefined parameter
  Pages automatically flagged with Template:META Error
Unexplained presence of an article status template
  Pages automatically flagged with Template:META Unexplained Status Template.
Application listed without links to packages
  Pages automatically flagged with Template:META Missing package.
Pages with misspelled or deprecated templates
  Need to fix template or change to new template.

### Problem redirects

Note: Redirects should not point to other sites and ones that do sometimes erroneously show up on these pages.

- Special:BrokenRedirects
- Special:DoubleRedirects

### Broken package links

This article or section needs expansion.

Reason: Possibly incomplete instructions. (Discuss)

ArchWiki contains many broken links to packages not found either in official repositories or AUR, which is the result of packages being merged, split or removed from the repositories. All pages in the main namespace are regularly checked by a bot, which checks all instances of AUR, Grp and Pkg templates, tries to automatically update them and marks them with Template:Broken package link when it is not possible to update them automatically.

To fix a broken package link, do not simply remove the reference to the packages from the wiki, do some research first:

- Search the package database (`pacman -Ss`) and AUR, it is possible that the package was merged/renamed.
- If looking for a specific file, for example a binary that was part of the package, pkgfile might do the trick.
- If unsure, mark the page or section with an appropriate status template rather than completely removing the reference to the package.

To view a list of all broken package links, see Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Broken package link.

## Creation requests

Here, list requests for topics that you think should be covered on ArchWiki. If not obvious, explain why ArchWiki coverage is justified (rather than existing Wikipedia articles or other documentation). Furthermore, please consider researching and creating the initial article yourself (see Help:Editing for content creation help).

### HOWTO: SAMBA PDC + LDAP

How to configure SAMBA PDC + LDAP in Arch Linux? (Moved from another page. Hokstein 19:57, 16 September 2007 (EDT))

### Tripwire

Finding information on the install of this program already requires a bit of searching around the net, and then a variety of modifications to get it running correctly. It would be nice to have a good HowTo about the install and setup of Tripwire on Arch. The package is availabe in community.

  It has since been removed from [community], it's in the AUR now. -- Karol 21:52, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

### Left-Handed Adjustments for Desktop Environments

I was thinking it would be helpful for lefties if there were a list of configuration options for each desktop environment that facilitate left-handed use of mice and touchpads. I'm not sure if this is related enough to Arch to include in this wiki, but I haven't had a lot of luck finding information for my own DE (KDE) let alone for others. I will start writing down information, and if no one else thinks there should be a separate page for this, I'll just add the information I find to each individual DE's page. —ajrl 2013-08-11T15:09−06:00

  I think a separate page is better. -- Fengchao (talk) 11:58, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

### Input methods

Currently there is no page on ArchWiki properly describing various input methods generally. There is only Internationalization#Input_methods_in_Xorg, but it has several problems:

- missing descriptions
- X compose key does not fit in
- GTK has a default "simple" input method featuring the `Ctrl+Shift+u` shortcut for entering a unicode character (this was added recently into a wrong article: [1]) - again, no description
- no description of XIM - outdated, but sometimes used as fallback?

So this is quite enough material to start a new great article ;)

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

  Update to note: While Internationalization#Input_methods_in_Xorg itself still remains a stub, we had editors contributing language specific instructions which were set as subpages of the article:
  Internationalization/Japanese and Internationalization/Korean
  --Indigo (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

### DRI

An article, or even stub that links to resources, explaining what DRI is, why it's important, differences between DRI 1, 2, 3, how DRI1 is no longer supported as of xorg-server 1.13, simple xorg.conf code explaining the DRI section, enabling the composite and render extensions there, these and more. Just my thoughts.

### ldns

ldns is a core package with no wiki documentation. It is also relatively new in the world of DNS tools and is not well covered on the Internet. Documentation of basic features and what it is not (eg a replacement for bind) would provide a valueable resource. MichaelRpdx (talk) 20:07, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

  The description of the ldns package is "Fast DNS library supporting recent RFCs". The official homepage mentions that several example programs are included with the library, the official docs is probably best for programmers. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

### Perl

Surprisingly, there is no wiki page describing the installation and configuration of Perl, unlike Python, Ruby etc. Could include the installation of CPAN modules and a list of good tutorials for beginners, too. So far there is only guides for packaging Perl and its modules (Perl Policy and Perl package guidelines respectively) -- bluestreak0 01:32, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

### Xen: Creation of a network bridge

I cleaned up the Xen article as much as I could. I can't get past the "Creation of a network bridge" section as it only describes how to do that with netctl. Maybe someone more experienced with Xen can expand on how to do that with other network managers?

UPDATE: See Network bridge, this request should be implemented there. axper (talk) 07:32, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

### Linux console

I was thinking that a new page for the console would be a good idea. The Wikipedia:Linux console article gives a short general overview, but obviously doesn't concern the configuration. Since it's an independent system, configured separately from any graphical environment, it would bring together several related sections across multiple articles in one place. It's a fairly complex system and difficult to cover in any depth in small sections across other articles (such as Fonts). I've put together a basic example, User:Teppic74/Linux_console. -- Teppic74 (talk) 17:11, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

  Sounds interesting, but I don't know how deep you want to go in the description, it may be too much for a single page as, according to your outline, the resulting article would cover all Fonts#Console fonts, Keyboard configuration in console, part of Extra keyboard keys, Map scancodes to keycodes and Extra keyboard keys in console. The keyboard configuration is split mainly because the configuration for Xorg is connected to it, I don't know how this would be done if the low-level description is moved. On the other hand, some of these articles could use some reorganization, so it may still be possible... -- Lahwaacz (talk) 13:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

    I feel this is part of the problem, that the details concerning the console are tacked on to other articles rather than being naturally associated with them. As things stand, I think the documentation is lacking. I don't think a huge amount of information is needed, it would just be helpful to be in one place, as the console is mostly isolated from the rest of the system. The other articles could link to the console article for further details. Another possibility is separate articles exclusively for the console display and keyboard, but they're obviously part of the same topic. -- Teppic74 (talk) 18:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

### Sublime-text

I think creating a page and mentioning ways to improve sublime-text integration with Gnome would be a good idea. The trick is if you run sublime with --class=<filename of sublime text .desktop file, e.g. sublime_text_3>, it would help Gnome and XFCE to group sublime instances with its respective desktop file. This is mentioned in the comments of the aur package but I think it's better that this would be in the wiki.--183.amir (talk) 12:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

## Modification requests

Here, list requests for correction or other modification of existing articles. Only systemic modifications that affect multiple articles should be included here. If a specific page needs modification, use that page's discussion or talk page instead and one of the #General requests templates.

As a rolling release, Arch is constantly receiving updates and improvements. Because of this the Arch wiki must be updated quickly to reflect these changes.

### DeveloperWiki

Many pages are out of date and I can't even flag them out of date. Should users be warned that pages in this "category" may be really old and abandoned? -- Karol 09:19, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

  Perhaps we can create a special template to be included at the top of every article in that category? -- Kynikos 13:41, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

    Just a note: some of these pages are in Category:DeveloperWiki, some in Category:Arch development and some in both :\ -- Lahwaacz (talk) 08:42, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

### Move/Merge articles to external wikis

Although Finnish and Serbian have their own wikis, we're still hosting some articles in those languages:

- Finnish articles
- Serbian articles: Српски, Srpski

Some users of those wikis should probably be contacted in order to complete the move/merge, replacing those articles with interlanguage links at least on the respective English pages.

-- Kynikos (talk) 16:34, 10 May 2012 (UTC) (Last edit: 03:04, 22 September 2013 (UTC))

### New dependencies for pacman

Some parts of the wiki may need updating, e.g. Pacman#Q:_Pacman_is_completely_broken.21_How_do_I_reinstall_it.3F (the last one in the FAQ). -- Karol 08:39, 20 January 2012 (EST)

  There are actually quite a few dependencies that aren't mentioned, since a broken dependency of pacman would also break pacman (can see them all with `pactree -l pacman | sort -u | cut -f 1 -d ' '`). The packages that would need to be downloaded and extracted would vary depending on which partial upgrade was done. thestinger 15:19, 21 February 2012 (EST)

    I can't find the section Karol linked above, was it removed? Can this be closed? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

      It was renamed to pacman#pacman is broken beyond repair [2]. — blackx (talk|contribs) 06:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

        Thanks, I've marked it with Template:Accuracy paraphrasing thestinger's info. Since this is probably the only place in the wiki with such info, I still think this can be closed... -- Lahwaacz (talk) 09:46, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

### Switch initscripts to systemd on all pages

TODO:

- D-Bus: Remove or redirect to Systemd. All link to it should be check and cleaned up.

Now that initscripts no longer are supported, we should change stuff that have information with initscripts to systemd --Toringe (talk) 22:49, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

  Agree, all initscripts should be converted to systemd. Many old stuff could be removed safely now. -- Fengchao (talk) 01:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
    D-Bus has nothing to do with initscripts deprecation, closing. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:04, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
      Unclosing.
      What should we do with articles that mention rc.conf etc? If I'm not going to fix them, is it OK to mark them as out of date like Very_Secure_FTP_Daemon#Using_xinetd and then consider the wiki switch to systemd as complete? -- Karol (talk) 12:05, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
        Yes please, go the Out-of-date template way, it will be more effective than this discussion. -- Kynikos (talk) 03:49, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

### ConsoleKit and D-Bus

#### polkit rebuild

ConsoleKit support has now been fully dropped from all packages in the repositories. There is no need for `ck-launch-session` and friends after this moves.

Please use link to General troubleshooting#Session permissions to replace anything mentioning `ck-launch-session`, `dbus-launch`, problems with consolekit/logind, etc.

-- thestinger (talk) 04:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

#### ck-launch-session dbus-launch and friends

We can remove every single mention of ck-launch-session on the wiki - consolekit support has been dropped upstream and Arch is going to drop it from all the other packages too. This was also never actually needed, since a session is already started with pam, and you simply needed to keep the session on the same tty. Using dbus-launch is usually not needed at all, and should be removed almost everywhere too. -- thestinger (talk) 18:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

  I decided just to get this right once and for all in xinitrc with the xinitrc.d snippet to start dbus, and preserving the session by keeping X on the same tty (which works with both logind and ck). It also avoids all the things that can go wrong with ck-launch-session (dbus being started first, for one). thestinger (talk) 22:24, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

    TODO:
    - remove ck-launch-session
    - remove dbus-launch
    - clean up pages mention consolekit.
    --Fengchao (talk) 01:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

      Status update: all pages inappropriately using `ck-launch-session` are marked as out of date, the only English page falling into this category is Joy2key. The number of localized pages in that list is quite high though, this issue should get some more attention. Pages also currently mention "consolekit" (the third link) only regarding its deprecation. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 11:46, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

### Move openjdk6 to jdk7-openjdk

Developer annourcement: OpenJDK6 packages will be removed by the end of this month.

All users should move to OpenJDK7 based packages jre7-openjdk/jre7-openjdk-headless/jdk7-openjdk (or the Oracle based JRE/JDK from AUR) very soon.

The next OpenJDK7 update will replace openjdk6 on the system.

There are many openjdk6 exist in Arch wiki. All of them should be removed or changed to openjdk7.

### Automatic loading of kernel modules

There are notes like "Since kernel 3.4 all necessary modules are loaded automatically" and "Newer versions of udev load the module automatically", which are usually followed by rather long section "If that does not work, do `modprobe foo`" and "To make it permanent after reboot, add the following to `/etc/modules-load.d/module.conf`".

Examples: Kernel_modules#Configuration, CPU frequency scaling, CPU frequency scaling#CPU_frequency_driver, Network configuration#Check_the_driver_status, Wireless_Setup#Device_driver.

There are several problems with this, so quick list of tasks:

- Verify kernel and udev version, because this also depends on the resolution of ArchWiki_talk:Reports#Minimum_supported_kernel_version.
- Perhaps the notes should be unified (though autoloading on hotplug and when some command is executed are different). Also note that some notes mentioning udev might be inaccurate and need to be changed to mention kernel (and vice versa).
- Replace verbose `modprobe` fallback commands with link to Kernel modules#Loading - see Help:Style#Kernel module operations.
- There's small problem with similar instructions to use some kernel module option - I don't consider it to be basic operation according to Help:Style#Kernel module operations, but this to be too verbose. I think some clear note (can't think of any right now) and link to Kernel modules#Setting module options should be provided.

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 19:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

  As the minimum supported kernel version is apparently 3.10 at the moment, we should get rid of those modprobe commands and just link to Kernel_modules#Configuration. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:02, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

### Links to Gentoo wiki

http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/ is offline for some quite time now, the new address is http://wiki.gentoo.org/. There are several links that need to be updated: [3]. I don't really know what (and when) happened there, I just suppose that there has been some major restructuring of the Gentoo documentation - there is not direct 1:1 mapping of the old links to the new address, so it will have to be done manually. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 14:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

  Actually, there is Gentoo Wiki Archives, but is it safe to link there considering that it is read-only? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 22:27, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

    http://wiki.gentoo.org/ is of course preferable, however if there's really no alternative and the article in the Archives is still relevant, the fact that it's no longer editable shouldn't prevent from linking there. -- Kynikos (talk) 01:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

### Cleanup: installation category

Category:Getting and installing Arch needs a serious cleanup, there are many outdated and/or inappropriate pages. I don't know if my perception of these pages isn't too radical, feel free to comment and possibly hold me down a bit.

Inappropriate:

- Erch - what is this? Some poor long forgotten spin-off? -- moved to original author page -- Alad (talk) 01:23, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- Install_on_windows_by_CoLinux - some Arch/Debian mutant spin-off, 6 years old -- moved to original author page -- Alad (talk) 01:23, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- Installation_Guide_Troubleshooting - either merge or delete, official document should not have an unofficial troubleshooting section/page - redirect with [4] -- Alad (talk) 01:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- Installing_Arch_Linux_on_a_Sun_Cobalt_RAQ_550 - move somewhere into Category:Hardware? [5] [6] -- Alad (talk) 09:59, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- Installing_Arch_Using_Old_Installation_Media - do we really need this? -- moved to original author page -- Alad (talk) 01:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Seriously outdated:

- AIF_Configuration_File - outdated, but see Talk:AIF_Configuration_File#Preserve_AIF_pages_for_Development (it says "pages" in title, were there more?)
- Installing_Arch_Linux_with_EVMS - last stable version of EVMS is from 2006 -- moved to original author page
- Hard_Disk_Installation - written in 2008, no major update ever since

Duplicated:

- Install_from_SSH and Remote_Arch_Linux_Install describe basically the same thing
- Installing_Arch_Linux_in_Virtual_Server - merge into Virtual_Private_Server?
- merge Remastering_the_Install_ISO and Building_a_Live_CD?

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 22:08, 6 March 2014 (UTC) -- edited on 17:18, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

  Agreed, I'll scratch fixed articles off the list. -- Alad (talk) 21:04, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

### Should we remove or archive obsolete articles?

Ubuntu One is one I stumbled upon. I think it can be safely deleted. -- Karol (talk) 19:22, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

  Could you explain in more details what you mean by archiving and deleting? I am all against completely removing information from public viewing however.
  axper (talk) 15:44, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

    Deleting means we remove the article and archiving means we e.g. lock the page or just add a note / warning at the top, saying that it's obsolete, not used anymore. Initscripts/rc.conf would be another such page. -- Karol (talk) 21:45, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

      Well, Ubuntu One is discontinued and the related AUR packages are deleted, I would really delete it, @axper do you have any particular objections?
      About Initscripts/rc.conf, there has been some work done in init, and its content may be re-used for the initscripts fork?
      -- Kynikos (talk) 06:41, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

        About deleting articles from wiki in general: Any article is documentation and deleting it wrong in my opinion. For example someone might want to design a similar program in the future find the information useful. Or some historian/statistican interested for example why the particular program failed to gain traction. Or Wikipedia or a similar resource might might use our articles for citations. Or the program might still be used by stable/old distros. Or finally, the project might be revived in the future!
        I vote for archiving:
        1. Add a corresponding notice at the top of the article
        2. Remove the article from category pages
        3. Remove all links to that article from this wiki
        Or if Mediawiki has any support for archiving - move such articles to separate namespace/whatever (needs more research).
        axper (talk) 16:32, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

          With MediaWiki, nothing is ever really deleted; deleted pages are just hidden from regular users. IMHO, deleting instead of archiving results in much cleaner wiki in general (mostly categories and search results). Also, unlike deletion, there is no "Archive" button, so every archival solution is very laborious. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 16:55, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

            hidden from regular users has mostly same effects as deleted, because it's accessible only by half a dozen chosen individuals. See the reasoning in my post above.
            About cleaner wiki:
            1. Categories: Just remove the page from category
            2. Search results:
               - Mediawiki search results: By default only (Main) namespace is searched. So a separate namespace would solve this.
               - Google/other search engines: Nothing can really be done (or should be done). If someone searches for "ubuntu one" and finds our archvied page, it's very normal behaviour!
            I don't think moving to separate namsepace is a lot more laborious than pressing "delete" button.
            Solutions other than separate namespace should be considered as well I think.
            axper (talk) 17:52, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

              Any archive would have to be organized in order to be useful. I don't think we have the manpower to do this even if archiving required just clicking a button. Also, I don't think that ArchWiki is intended to be a (partial) archive of any kind.
              Regardless, dead projects are quickly forked if they were really useful and died just because of the maintainer's lack of time, or they are lost forever regardless of the archived documentation. I don't see why we should keep a page about projects dead for ~5 years, the more when upstream has its own documentation archived.
              -- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

                I counted only 25 (twenty-five) English articles in (Main) namespace marked for deletion as a whole [7]. I don't see how keeping them together unorganized would make them less useful. Anyone interested in them would specifically search for the name in a search engine.
                Why keep pages about dead projects - see my first post above. Besides, this wiki often contains higher quality and quantity documentation than upstream's.
                Now, pages which do not contain any meaningful text whatsoever (like Beginners_Guide_to_C++), it's a different matter.
                axper (talk) 05:13, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

                    From Special:Log/delete, we deleted about 300 pages in past 4 months.
                    Dig through the out of date pages for usefully information is usually harder than starting from scratch because you need to know what is out of dated and what is not.
                    So in theory, you can re-use these pages. In practic they just pollute "What links here" system. I say this with my KDE wiki contributor hat on which does use Archive namespace for out of date pages.
                    --Fengchao (talk) 13:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

                      Instead of manually looking for content worth digging out I was/am suggesting to make available/archive everything. Unless, of course, it is spam or nonsense.
                      It is possible to filter out namespaces in "What links here" pages.
                      axper (talk) 14:06, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

                        As I explained below, simple archiving is an inconsistent solution, because when part of an article is removed for some reason (out of date, inaccurate...) it's not archived (though it remains accessible in the history of the article), so there's no reason entire articles should be treated differently. The only solutions that can be considered are those that allow everybody visit the history of "deleted" articles. -- Kynikos (talk) 08:26, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

                  Ok, I admit I don't have (and probably there can't logically be) any counterarguments against the generic "it might be useful again in the future" argument, and I guess the whole point here is that the deleted content is no longer accessible to regular users, not even in the history of a page, because it seems noone has anything against e.g. removing outdated portions of articles, or removing closed discussions. This means that both deleting and archiving don't comply with the requirements, do we agree on this?
                  The only solution consistent with all this seems the redirection idea proposed below, but in that case the content of those articles wouldn't appear anymore in any kind of search results, so a user interested in retrieving their content should be aware of the existence of both Deprecated pages and of the old page that redirects there. This would however still sort of answer the problem of possibly breaking external links, as following one would lead to Deprecated pages, which in turn could inform the user on what happened to the article (s)he was looking for.
                  Considering all this, maybe, and I say maybe, a new policy to address deletions could be to:
                  1. Assess if it's possible to redirect the article to another one, as we're already doing.
                  2. If not, assess if the history of the page is meaningful enough to justify redirecting the article to Deprecated pages instead.
                  3. If not, really delete the article.
                  The only new step would be 2., which is not so different from 1., so it could even start making sense. This is a very intricate issue, let's see what the comments to this post will be.
                  -- Kynikos (talk) 11:02, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

                    What are the security implications of making Special:Undelete available to everyone? See also mw:Help:Undelete. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 11:20, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

                      That would indeed be a kiss way of solving the problem. I haven't found any discussions about that, and the only bad implication I can think of is if somebody creates a defamatory article and we delete it, we wouldn't be able to prevent anyone from linking to the deleted revision(s) anyway, thus exposing the wiki to possible legal consequences. However, the same attack could be carried out on an already existing useful article, and the same fix could be used in both cases, i.e. using the "change visibility" feature.
                      Maybe we could ask upstream about other possible consequences.
                      -- Kynikos (talk) 16:45, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

                        That is an even better option. axper (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

                        I have sent a mail to the MediaWiki mailing list, let's wait for response... -- Lahwaacz (talk) 09:06, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

                          Well done, I've subscribed and will step in if necessary. -- Kynikos (talk) 01:46, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

      Adding Template:Deletion at the top of a page is a reasonable note/warning in these cases, then the admins can go through Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Deletion and consider each page. Or is this a general discussion about deletion and archival on this wiki, possibly intended to devise a proper archival solution (e.g. separate namespace)? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 14:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

        How about making a separate page, Deprecated pages? Any deprecated articles would be blanked, references to them removed, and then redirected to that page. They're "deleted", yet easily accessible via "What links here" should the need arise. -- Alad (talk) 19:28, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

          Seems reasonable to me. axper (talk) 05:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
            Why not just visit Special:Log/delete. Any difference here?--Fengchao (talk) 13:32, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

              Well, Special:Log/delete contains (references to) all deleted pages. As Kynikos mentioned, a page like Deprecated pages would only contain articles with notable content in the past, but that is now no longer relevant. -- Alad (talk) 09:07, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

                Exactly. The logs are overdose for the intention. I do like the consideration of having a Deprecated pages for singular cases when the admins evaluate a deletion template as well, if that keeps search history neat & up-to-date. I have a limited view on the topic, but it sounds to me that a separate archiving-namespace would be overkill for this.
                Imho Karol started this discussion with the best examples for both cases: Ubuntu One wiki information will surely float around the web for very long, there is nothing an Arch wiki article about using it with this distro can add after it was shut down. The Initscripts/rc.conf, however, is Arch's own history. Another one like that: I tried to update the non-resolving package links for Pacbuild to no avail. Probably the fellow who created it (and the article) back in 2006 would not mind it being deleted now. Yet, the wiki might want to care about the Arch legacy to that extend anyhow. A buffer like the idea of Deprecated pages could help out there. It could have simple sections (e.g. separating Arch-specific content and other content considered notable in different categories, etc.). I also could imagine cases where it makes the decision easier for the admins - some content could be deprecated first and deleted after a safeguarding time. --Indigo (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

                  Well, the new "article" would only be used as a redirect target in place of deletions with something like `#REDIRECT [[ArchWiki:Deleted]]`. Then in it we would instruct users to look at the WhatLinksHere page to see which articles are linked and browse their history. We can't implement anything more complicated than that, i.e. there would be no content to be separated into sections. -- Kynikos (talk) 14:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

                    Ah, thanks for clarifying. Picking up another thought from above not clear to me: Given we cannot distinguish the `#REDIRECT [[ArchWiki:Deleted]]` from the extensively employed regular redirects to guide to most relevant current content. Might it happen that, e.g. after pursuing that route for a year or two, those redirects start to spoil/pollute search results for the regular user seeking only current content? Or is that not a problem (e.g. due to amount of pages we anticipate to deprecate like that or maybe we can control somewhere that they are only listed at the bottom of search results)? Or is the extra effort small enough to justify testing it out and change route in case it does become a problem (and we might profit from the deprecate-delete decisions already been taken)? --Indigo (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

                      This discussion may be related ... -- Alad (talk) 21:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
                        Well, the content of those "semi-deleted" articles wouldn't be parsed by the search engine, so only their titles could constitute a problem in search results. Now, it's unlikely that titles like "Ubuntu One" could pollute the search results for other still-alive terms, and in case some of them did, that would probably mean that instead of "semi-deleting" them, we should have redirected them to some other related article (see step 1. in the checklist in one of my posts above).
                        Anyway if this became a problem in the future, all the semi-deleted articles could be quickly and easily finished off with a bot.
                        -- Kynikos (talk) 01:58, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

                          @Alad: Yes, it is - ensuring quality of the regular redirects is not spoiled longterm.
                          @Kynikos: Ok, I take from that the extra redirect can be a worthwhile exercise to try and see. Something that cannot be done with the fourth option without more certainty about consequences.
                          Re "finished off with a bot": and the tagging as "semi-deleted" could also be useful to recycle the bunch another way (e.g. if route is changed to something else than "delete" for whatever reason).
                          Now for the fourth identified option to publicize Special:Undelete I wonder about search accuracy as well: would turning it on spoil internal search results? (no) How about external search engines? Any chance those get confused and suddenly index deleted content that they don't crawl now? --Indigo (talk) 20:29, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

                            You've answered the first question: no.
                            Second question: to view the content of a deleted revision, a POST request is needed, and that's something that search bots don't do, at least the normal ones. But even if that wasn't the case, history pages, old (not top-level) revisions and deleted revisions (and many other kinds of pages) all have `<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" />` in the head, which allows me to confidently answer "no" as well.
                            -- Kynikos (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

          When redirecting the page to Deprecated pages, the operation would be (btw. see the table below for comparison with other solutions):
          1. Update/remove all backlinks (as is done today when deleting a page)
          2. Redirect the page
          3. Protect the archived page to prevent updates
          I'm assuming here that the solution should be similar to the current way in that archived pages should not be updated and that archived pages should not be linked. And this is the problem, we can't technically prevent linking to archived pages if we choose this solution.
          -- Lahwaacz (talk) 23:16, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

            I'm not sure if protection is needed, after all deleted articles can be freely recreated, so semi-deleted articles shouldn't have a higher level of protection.
            About links, the fact that the semi-deleted articles are redirects that point to ArchWiki:Deleted should already discourage linking to them. The same goes for any kind of links, we can't technically prevent any kind of nonsensical links, I think that's an unrelated problem. Yes, it's possible that somebody links to an old revision of the semi-deleted article with an external link, but that's already true for the old revisions of the existing articles.
            -- Kynikos (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

              Right, when we provide an archive, it should be possible to link to the archived revisions. Anyway, there could be a difference between redirecting and deleting as it seems that I can't link to specific revision of a deleted article - the preview button from [8] just gives this url: `https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&action=submit`.
              -- Lahwaacz (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

                There is a difference, you can't link to a fully-deleted revision because only its plain source text can be queried normally (mw:API:Deletedrevs and mw:API:Undelete#Token), so the rendered page can only be previewed (I guess with the same algorithm that previews normal pages being edited), which requires a POST request (i.e. no parameters visible in the url => unlinkable). This is another parameter for the table below; I'm not sure if the ideal solution should allow linking or not. -- Kynikos (talk) 14:52, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

              About protection, is the ideal solution controlled (i.e. admins (+maintainers?) control which pages will be archived/restored) or open (where anybody can archive/restore a page)? I don't see a problem with controlled as users could ask for the operation to be performed. On the other hand, open archival could bring problems. I think that ideally archival would be controlled and restoration open.
              -- Lahwaacz (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

                IMO we should use MediaWiki's default behavior: if we go for the visible deleted revisions, then the archiving operation is a deletion which by default is controlled; if we go the ArchWiki:Deleted way, then the archiving operation is a redirection which would be patrolled just like any other redirection for any other purpose, so it could stay uncontrolled. The same could go for restoration, although if we allow everybody see the source of deleted revisions, it's not necessary to have undelete rights to restore the article, it would be enough to just re-create the article by pasting the source there (I know, it wouldn't be the proper way because all the history would be lost). -- Kynikos (talk) 14:35, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Why exactly was the "separate namespace" way discarded? Was it FS#35545? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 23:20, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

  Apart from 35545, if I understand correctly the "separate namespace" solution would consist in moving the candidate articles into a special namespace without hiding their content with a redirect; yes, all their backlinks would have been cleared, but they would still keep linking to other articles, thus polluting those articles' backlinks, and also some special pages, and that's something that I'd like to avoid. -- Kynikos (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

I have modified the row "Permission to perform archiving" for the "ArchWiki:Deleted" way to be simply "editors", which is the least privileged group which could perform archiving under ideal circumstances. There are some cases when editors wouldn't be able to perform the operation by themselves: for example if the archived page had some redirects pointing to it, they should be deleted, because archiving would create a double redirect and "normal" fix would cause the redirects to be archived too, which is useless since there is usually no history.

Also note that archiving would most likely involve more people from different groups: for example everybody could propose a page to be archived, then after reaching a consensus, admins/editors would archive the page, then editors/patrols would check the operation etc. This is not a good material for the table below since it applies to all methods, however it should be discussed because we will have to write guidelines for the archiving anyway.

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 19:53, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

  I agree with redirects, they should be deleted when archiving their target, unless for some reason they can be diverted to some other article.
  And yes, we should really start writing guidelines not only for archiving, but also for the other common operations (creating/moving/deleting a page, moving a section in the same article or another article, generic redirection...), something like already exists in ArchWiki Translation Team#Create a new page and its translation.
  -- Kynikos (talk) 03:36, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

    Absolutely, we need to cover that. @Lahwaacz: Also all good with just "editors", but one step we want in the process is the decision about "notable content" in that column, no?. E.g. (1) Karol identifies Ubuntu One as deprecated, (2) ideally proposes a method (redirect or delete) due to content in the template, (3) the delete gets no objections. Now at the latest that "archiving" (deletion in this case) proposal should get to the admins to review/perform. (Just wondering if the simplest would be to use two redirect templates at that point, i.e. "Archwiki:Deleted" and "Archwiki:Obsoleted" or something, but might be totally unnecessary). I must say I am curious what the others think about the current table!? any objections we concentrate on column 3/4? --Indigo (talk) 10:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

      Yes, the decision step about notability should be in the guidelines.
      I'm not sure what you mean about the "Archwiki:Deleted" and "Archwiki:Obsoleted" pages: in case we go for the redirect solution, obsolete pages will be redirected to the dedicated "ArchWiki:..." page if they have a notable history, otherwise they will be normally deleted like we're doing now.
      Are 3/4 0-based indices? Just to make it clear, I'd concentrate on the last 2 columns.
      -- Kynikos (talk) 01:46, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

        When I added above rough idea quoting "Archwiki:Deleted" and "Archwiki:Obsoleted" I was thinking again about the easiest workflow to distinguish the decision to either archive or delete. Sticking to "Ubuntu One": how do you get to know that (1) the deletion proposal had no objections and (2) it's time to delete it.
        To my understanding the admins currently either consider a deletion template set by others by running across it, or by getting notified individually. The idea was that using two new redirect templates (deleted/obsoleted) instead of one, the two buckets could be filled - each to be reviewed at its own pace. Clearer? --Indigo (talk) 07:40, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

          Then you have used the wrong prefix, you meant "Template:Deleted" and "Template:Obsoleted". There is already Template:Deletion, so I would use "Template:Archival" for the new template. Maybe it would be clearer to use just the verb: "Template:Delete", "Template:Archive", "Template:Move", Template:Merge... -- Lahwaacz (talk) 10:46, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

            Uhm, with "two buckets" I actually meant two new redirect targets: one for semi-delete/archive (column 3), one for delete. If the delete-redirect would be set by an editor, the admins only have to check that bucket for new redirects and review/delete those articles. Likewise for the semi-delete/archive (column 3) redirect the notable content decision would be checked.
            Using two templates for the distinction instead, you in your admin role still have to track status of the deletion template(s) across the wiki somehow, your fellow admin maybe does it as well, etc. Maybe it is clearer, if you see the two redirect-targets as patrol-points.
            Does that make sense/sound practical? (I may well be over-engineering our case:) --Indigo (talk) 14:16, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

              I think that you over-complicate things here... Unlike archival, deletion is a core feature of MediaWiki, there is no need to use the redirect-to-some-dummy-page workaround. Using the MediaWiki's feature, deleted pages are just "gone" for the regular users (at least until the fourth/last column is implemented). Obviously the solutions in columns 3 and 4 (redirection and deletion) can't be combined, redirecting a deleted page would make it undeleted.
              We are trying to devise a solution for archiving pages, which is not implemented directly in MediaWiki, so let's focus the discussion on this topic. Also, for now I would like to focus on choosing the archiving technique (the technological solution), the guidelines (user interaction, used templates etc.) can be discussed later as this will inevitably depend on the chosen technique.
              -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:28, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

              After reading your post again, another idea occurred to me: perhaps you meant the problem of differentiation between deleted and archived pages? This is a problem exclusively for the last method, i.e. archiving by deleting. If we wanted to somehow distinguish archived pages from "normal" deleted pages, it would be likely done by the "Reason for deletion" (see mw:Help:Sysop_deleting_and_undeleting), which would store the information in the Deletion log. We could probably mark the pages with appropriate template before actually deleting it, but using the "Reason for deletion" seems more natural and useful. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:49, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

                Thanks for taking the time for above too Lahwaacz. Sure, this can wait. To your question: yes, that's what I meant. I'm going to stop about it, but just a tiny example: User:Indigo/Test1. Now for the example the admins would only have to check the backlinks of that redirect, review & delete (with "Reason for deletion" as usual). We could also use such for the last method as well I believe, if at all useful. --Indigo (talk) 19:50, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

                  We can re-use the advice to fix the link that led the user there in the redirect for simply-archived pages, although it will make sense only for external/full links, as a good admin will have fixed all the internal backlinks before archiving or deleting an article. About your idea in general, we can already check Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Deletion, there's no need for a "temporary redirect" after the page has been marked for deletion. -- Kynikos (talk) 13:59, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

                    Ok, no change deemed necessary then. --Indigo (talk) 16:11, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

  I think we should delete Ubuntu One article, because it is no need anymore. Also, please delete Ubuntu One (Русский) article too. Agent0 (talk) 08:19, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

    +1. Your heads-up for the second link got overlooked. --Indigo (talk) 21:10, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      Done. — Kynikos (talk) 03:34, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

#### List of suggested solutions

A table of additional properties to follow the discussion more easily:

| Ideal | Delete, don't look back (current method, not a solution) | Separate namespace (discarded) | Redirect to a page like "ArchWiki:Deleted" | Publicize Special:Undelete
--- | --- | --- | --- | --- | ---
Type of archive operation | - | delete | move | redirect (i.e. modify content, then protectquestioned) | delete
Permission to perform archiving | ??? | admins | depends on config | editors | admins
Permission to undo archiving | ??? | admins | depends on config (?) (can be forced w/ copy/paste) | editors | admins (can be forced w/ copy/paste)
Page titles show in wiki search results | no | no | yes | yes (if redirects are included) | no
Page content shows in wiki search results | no | no | yes | no | no
Page titles/content show in external search results | no | no | yes (unless disabled with 1 or 2) | no | no
Secure (see discussion) | yes | yes | yes | yes | ??? (ask upstream)
Pollutes other pages' backlinks and special pages | no | no | yes | no | no
Can link to archived revisions | ??? | no | yes | yes | no

### Broken redirects

I have written a simple script to list redirects with broken fragments (i.e. when no section with given title is found on the target page). After filtering out some false positives, here is the result. (And because I am incredibly selfish, I have eaten the low-hanging fruit before sharing the rest with others ;) )

As usual, please strike the fixed items off the list. Some things to consider:

- The section might have been renamed, either to simplify the title, or just to fix capitalization as per Help:Style#Section headings.
- Or it might have been merged with other, more generic section. Use the most relevant section for the redirect, or just redirect directly to the relevant page.
- In the worst case, there is no relevant content on the target page. This will probably deserve a separate discussion.

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:01, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

  Nice script. I fix zh-cn Chinese pages. --Fengchao (talk) 13:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

    A little tip, check the date when the redirection was made, then check the history of the target page from that date to see what happened to the section. Alternatively, searching for the keywords of the missing section can help. -- Kynikos (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Update: I have removed the fixed redirects for better readability of the rest, for reference they can be found here. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

- Beginners' Guide/Preface (日本語) --> Beginners' Guide (日本語)#インストールの準備
- Map Custom Device Entries with udev (Español) --> Udev (Español)#Escribir reglas udev
- Pacman Color Output (Español) --> Pacman Tips (Español)#Coloriando la salida de pacman
- Redownloading all installed packages --> Pacman tips#Redownloading All Installed Packages (minus AUR) -- section renamed with [9], does the redirect still make sense?
- Samba - swat --> Samba#Web-based configuration .28SWAT.29
- Search and explore local network shares --> Samba#Discovering network shares
- Upower --> Pm-utils#UPower method -- section removed in [10], so what shall we do with upower? pm-utils is not even a dependency of upower anymore...

### Nautilus got renamed to Gnome Files

Do we want to rename every occurrence of 'nautilus' in Arch wiki or is the redirect enough? -- Karol (talk) 23:49, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

  The redirect has only 3 backlinks, 2 of which are talk pages. About normal strings, this should be a comprehensive list, but it seems pretty dangerous to do a blind mass rename with a bot.
  Moving this back to the normal requests.
  -- Kynikos (talk) 14:06, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

    I replaced appropriate occurrences of 'nautilus' yesterday. I preserved upstream software names e.g. (Nautilus Terminal), package names and gschema names (for obvious reasons) and executable names. -- Chazza (talk) 14:50, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

      Well done once again, Chazza, but the search I linked above still seems to show some appearances of "Nautilus" as file manager, so I guess we can't close this item yet. -- Kynikos (talk) 09:57, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

        I started going through the pages in the search you link to. I think it will have to be done manually seeing as paths, gschemas, executables and upstream projects that use nautilus in their name cannot be renamed. Regarding foreign language pages, if there are just a handful occurrences of 'Nautilus' google translate can be used to get the gist of a sentence and see if it is safe to change 'Nautilus' to 'GNOME Files' or 'Files' - usually it is. But for the Spanish and Arabic pages Nautilus pages, there are dozens of occurrences so I would much rather leave that to native speakers. -- Chazza (talk) 11:41, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

          Doh, I said the discussion was to be kept open, but I struck the heading anyway ^^' (thanks for re-opening it)
          I was only referring to the English pages, I agree that the presence of out of date translations shouldn't be enough to keep requests in this page open, unless they are specifically about translations, which is not this case.
          -- Kynikos (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

#### List

A list of pages where all possible instances Nautilus have been changed so we know what's been done and what hasn't. I will add to the list as I go through the pages returned in the search. -- Chazza (talk) 11:41, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

- Nautilus - Completed
- Nautilus (日本語) - No changeable instances
- Digital Cameras - Completed
- Awesome (한국어) - Completed
- GNOME (简体中文) - Completed
- GNOME tips - Completed
- Desktop environment - No changeable instances
- Lineak - No changeable instances
- GNOME tips (Nederlands) - Completed
- Firefox (العربية) - No changeable instances
- Bug Day/2010 - No changeable instances
- Openbox (Česky) - Completed
- fuseiso - Completed
- Beginners' Guide (Indonesia) - Completed
- Feh - Completed
- Bluetooth (Italiano) - Completed
- Feh (Italiano) - Completed
- Samba (Italiano) - Completed
- Backup programs - Completed
- Oggenc - Completed
- Samba - Completed
- IPod - Completed
- Dropbox - Completed
- GNOME (Italiano) - No changeable instances
- Samba (日本語) - Completed
- GNOME Tips (简体中文) - Completed

### Specific laptops' pages templates

Lets make rules for creating specific laptops' pages. I have noticed that there is a hell in different articles describing laptops. For example if you compare two of any articles of Lenovo/IBM Notebooks, you will see, that it is hurd to understand and find relevant information. You can see how good (at least organised) is article in their wiki.

Lets make something like DebianOn article, and take something like this template for all articles. And then articles will look good. —This unsigned comment is by Agent0 (talk) 9:43, 6 September 2014. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

  That's a neat idea imo. We could have a template to point to ala DebianOn or, at least, suggest a reference example for TOC structure of those articles. Certainly editors creating a new article take the second route automatically at current, but "all" pick a different template they base on :) One thing we should definetely do is suggest a template in "Category:Laptops" for new article's, the sub-categories per vendor and Laptop as well. I'd be ambivalent about making it a rule. .. If you look at our laptop articles, which (one or more) would you point to as a good reference example for the structure? --Indigo (talk) 11:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

    As I said, there is a hell in our articles. Each author makes TOC as describing some problems or features, but all differs from article to article. There are some useful information in other model's articles, but it is hurd to find, due to such hell. For now I cannot point to some article, that have a good TOC.
    But I am working on [Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13] article (it is my laptop). I have some problems, that I want to solve and describe in article. If you (and/or somebody else) could help me, we could make an article with goog TOC, and then make a template.
    My problem for now is brightness Agent0 (talk) 11:29, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

      Well, the Coding Style principles used in the DebianOn project are much different from our style guidelines: we don't use transclusions, we encourage the use of links, and we don't use comments in code (HTML syntax for MediaWiki)...
      As for the current state of laptops' pages on ArchWiki, the configuration done on laptops is mostly general and should not be duplicated (again, we don't use transclusions), so it is kept in the general pages (see Backlight, Laptop, Power saving...). The pages for individual laptops focus on the specifics and especially on what does not work, hence the diversity.
      I'm not opposing an attempt on cleaning the pages in Category:Laptops a bit, just note you will most probably run into the most general problem with any hardware documentation: with the hardware becoming obsolete, there will be less and less people to test the procedures and correct the information on the wiki. A well-formatted page with useless/incorrect/outdated content is not a good page...
      -- Lahwaacz (talk) 12:15, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

        Of course we should use our local rules for formatting pages. I was not saying about transclusions. I just wanted to define order of hardware to list and mark if something is working or not. It will be very helpful for consumers to know if some laptop has a good compatibility with linux or not. Agent0 (talk) 16:24, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
          Laptop pages should not duplicate what is already exist in general pages. It should be simple pages with only specific information just for the laptop. Maybe we could some note to every laptop pages to mention this. --Fengchao (talk) 13:39, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

            I can take the task to create some guidance on not duplicating info & also a pre-phrased note/template we can use on existing content (good idea). I think it would be good in this case to use a "best practise" reference of a Laptop article that achieves a good balance of supplementing the general Laptop article. Opinions on which of our existing Laptop pages could we use as example? --Indigo (talk) 10:57, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

              Considering the collaborative effort in editing the page, and its good compliance to Help:Style, I suggest ASUS_N550JV as example for a generic Laptop article. -- Alad (talk) 12:19, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

                Thanks for feedback. I can see how that could work and will pick the topic up soon. If other suggestions are in mind, post them. --Indigo (talk) 21:18, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

### Hide irrelevant pages in search suggestions

Is it possible to hide some irrelevant pages in search suggestion? For example, we should not hide Dkms page, because someone will looking that word. But we should hide irrelevant suggestions, such as Internet Share. It pollutes search and more unpleasant, I have sometimes created russian page with wrong title, because of this. I mean, I just added ' (Русский)' to english title, because when you are redirected, page's title in address string is still wrong. I understand, that we could not just delete them, because of some forums may use old titles. But making them invisible in Archwiki I think is good idea. Agent0 (talk) 14:39, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

  Theoretically it would be possible to hide the redirects which differ only in capitalization, but MediaWiki is not able to do this. You can either get results including all redirects (default), or none: on search page click Advanced in the search bar and then unselect List redirects checkbox (and click Search to renew the results).
  It seems that starting with MediaWiki 1.24, the URL for redirect pages will be rewritten to the target URL[11], which would certainly prevent the kind of mistakes you described. By the way, does anybody have an idea why ArchWiki is still at 1.22 branch?
  -- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:41, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

    Ok, and what about hiding pages, which titles differ not only in capitalization? For example, begin typing search string 'wire', you will see many pages named "Wireless Setup", but you cannot see what ever pages' titles begins with 'wire'.
    Thanks for advice. I can do advanced search, but usually I use search box, which is in left side of each page. And the problem is that I do not want to hide ALL redirects, but want hide SOME redirects, that are irrelevant.
    By the way, about hiding: is it theoretically possible to hide other languages suggestions in which languages I am not interested in? For example, I want to see which pages exists with title beginning like "Blueto". In suggestions I see many "Bluetooth (Language)" pages, but do not see, that there are article about bluetooth keyboard.
    It's good, that URL will be overwritten, we will wait for Archwiki to be updated by some admin.
    Agent0 (talk) 18:51, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

      @Lahwaacz: I've always wondered too why Pierre is maintaining a "mw-1.23" branch in the repo but not merging it; I've posted a message in arch-general about that.
      @Agent0: The wiki search engine is MediaWiki's vanilla, with all its features and limitations; for an alternative, you can try an external search engine like Google, appending site:wiki.archlinux.org to the search strings. In any case, a search engine will not understand what is "relevant" and what is not, unless it's given an algorithm to do so, which is not the case for our wiki. About languages in search results, you can already add the name of a language to the search strings in order to limit the results to that language; restricting results to English is not currently possible and will be fixed by Help_talk:I18n#Language_namespace(s)_in_place_of_suffixes?.
      -- Kynikos (talk) 03:38, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

### Article guideline

Move here from Talk:Hardware_Compatibility_List.

I've looked through the pages in HCL, and most information it contains is either duplicated (upstream which Arch mostly follows), abandoned (lists with a few entries serve little purpose), or outdated (sometimes by several years). The style is also particularly bad. Specifically, I feel the pages in Hardware Compatibility List#Components could be deleted. -- Alad (talk) 00:35, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

  I started the cleaning the "everything-works incomplete pages", the relevant troubleshooting sections are/should be on the main wiki pages (Network configuration, ATI, NVIDIA etc).
  Btw, is it spring already? Last time I checked the winter was coming...
  -- Lahwaacz (talk) 12:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

    Hah, caught me on that one. Thanks for your work so far. -- Alad (talk) 14:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

      +1 from me. I want to add some notice to "Laptop" related pages. Something like "Only add specific information to fix things that does not work. Do not list things already work well".
      Any thoughts?
      --Fengchao (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

        Definitely agreed, it gets tiresome to delete all the "works out of the box" comments and duplicated manufacturer information. Maybe we could put this in Help:Style? (not sure if generic enough to add it there, could be discussed on Help_talk:Style) -- Alad (talk) 19:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

          Also agreed on stating the "official policy" somewhere; if there is no such thing then we had better create it. But IMHO it would be more visible on HCL/Laptops (and of course this page, if it survives the "spring cleanup"). -- Lahwaacz (talk) 19:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

            +1. Once we have it: In addition to HCL/Laptops we should link it top page in the description of "Category:Laptops". There is a related request already: ArchWiki:Requests#Specific_laptops.27_pages_templates. I propose 'policy' discussion there instead of style. --Indigo (talk) 22:36, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

              Large portion of my Arch Wiki time is spent to below pages. Need a way to improve the situation. I think Archwiki:Contributing could/should hold such information.
              - Specific Laptop pages - User should: Only add information to fix things that do not work. Do not list things already work well. Do not duplicate information from Laptop.
              - Specific Application pages - If the application work out of box and the page only list needed packages. Add it to List of applications.
              - Network related apps. For example OwnCloud, only base platform setup (php, Apache) are Arch Linux specific. General settings should go upstream instead.
              --Fengchao (talk) 09:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

                In accordance with Help talk:Style#Better structuring, I'd like to minimize the centralization of style rules for specific pages in single articles, be it Help:Style, ArchWiki:Contributing etc. This is my position:
                - Style for Category:Laptops pages should be discussed in ArchWiki:Requests#Specific_laptops.27_pages_templates and should probably be stated in the category page itself.
                - Style for HCL pages should be stated directly there and/or in its direct child pages.
                - Fengchao's "Specific Application pages" rule could go in the intro of List of applications.
                - Fengchao's "Network related apps" is IMHO already covered by Help:Style#Hypertext metaphor.

                -- Kynikos (talk) 04:49, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

                  +1. To add to above:
                  - Fengchao's note about "Specific Application pages" could further be added as example to the "stub" bullet in ArchWiki:Contributing#Improving and
                  - the "Network related apps" example in a general fashion to ArchWiki:Contributing#Organizing.
                  - Perhaps one could also rename ArchWiki:Contributing#Announce massive edits in a talk page to ArchWiki:Contributing#Massive edits and use that rule to (1) refer the user to announce the edit on the talk page (current content) and (2) add a couple sentences to make the editor consider ArchWiki's stance on deduplication, crosslinking, referring to upstream documentation for default features, etc. - before starting massive edits.
                  --Indigo (talk) 12:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

                    I wouldn't like to add too many specific recommendations to ArchWiki:Contributing, but at the moment I'm not strongly against either, since I want to largely reorganize that page anyway one day; maybe the "Specific Application pages" and "Network related apps" rules would better fit ArchWiki:Contributing#Creating.
                    About renaming ArchWiki:Contributing#Announce massive edits in a talk page I'm against: I want to keep those rules as basic as possible, since their only goal must be to prevent damage that can only be fixed with complete reversions; for this reason they shouldn't refer to style rules; also their headings should be complete sentences; if a massive edit is announced in a talk page, we can point the author to Help:Style#Hypertext metaphor if necessary.
                    -- Kynikos (talk) 15:39, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

### Systemd readahead removed

There are many pages mention systemd's readahead. This function is removed in v217[12]. Action needed:

1. Notice users about this and disable old service.
2. Remove related section after awhile.

--Fengchao (talk) 13:44, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

  How should we do 1.? You can ask the devs to add this info on the front page or in pacman's output when updating / installing systemd but systemd 217 has been in the repos for over a month and in [testing] we already have systemd 218. I've only seen two threads on the forum: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=189128 and https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=189799
  I've already searched for 'readahead' when I've removed the readahead section. Do you think we should edit Daemons List and Readahead-fedora? Other mentions seem to be non-English or user pages. -- Karol (talk) 00:29, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

    I don't think we need to do anything about 1), most people have already noticed and I don't see how a note in the wiki would help the others.
    Btw. I have removed the mention of systemd-readahead from most of the pages, there are just a couple sections still indirectly mentioning systemd-readahead, which I marked as outdated.
    Finally, there is a broken redirect on the section removed by Karol.
    -- Lahwaacz (talk) 09:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

### TrackPoint

A new page, TrackPoint, has been created to cover the configuration of the special input device typical to all/most ThinkPad laptops. There are still many pages duplicating the information, below is a complete list of pages that need to be merged. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:56, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

- IBM_ThinkPad_X41#Scrolling_with_trackpoint
- Lenovo ThinkPad Edge E430
- Lenovo ThinkPad T410
- Lenovo ThinkPad T420s
- Lenovo ThinkPad T530
- Lenovo ThinkPad T61
- Lenovo ThinkPad X120e
- Lenovo ThinkPad X220
- Lenovo ThinkPad X230
- Lenovo Thinkpad X60 Tablet

### XBMC renamed to Kodi

Since version 14 XBMC was renamed to Kodi, see FS#43220. There are also some typos that say 'xmbc'. -- Karol (talk) 10:59, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

  I checked backlinks to Kodi of the now moved article. I think we got it covered. Can this be closed? --Indigo (talk) 09:22, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

    Thank you Indigo, unfortunately there's more, including an entry in List of applications/Multimedia and an entire section in XScreenSaver :) — Kynikos (talk) 09:21, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

      Ah, thanks for search fu. I amended the last two for starters of this lot [13] [14]. Simple thing to watch for the rest is that the config directory stays `~/.xmbc/`. --Indigo (talk) 14:50, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

### Cleanup: links to non-existent packages

As of today, there are exactly 714 invalid uses (413 unique) of Template:AUR or Template:Pkg, spread across 398 pages. The complete list is on User:Lahwaacz.bot/Report 2014-04-05. I will try to go through it and update the links, but this is not a one-man job, so I would really appreciate some help. Please remember to strike/remove the items from the list to save others' time. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 16:42, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

  The previous report is closed for further updates, please contribute to User:Lahwaacz.bot/Report 2014-05-11. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 09:15, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

    The previous reports are closed for further updates, please contribute to User:Lahwaacz.bot/Report 2014-12-24. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 13:14, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

      The previous reports are closed for further updates, please contribute to User:Lahwaacz.bot/Report 2015-02-06. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

#### Surrounding link text

While performing #Cleanup: links to non-existent packages, the bot updated a lot of package links, but of course it couldn't update the text around them accordingly, for example [15], so that's something else that could be done. Here's the list of the changes: [16]. -- Kynikos (talk) 03:24, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

  Technical detail: the last link is now slightly inaccurate, it shows all edits of the bot made in April 2014. Is there a way to set a specific day? (in this case 5th April) -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

    Cool, there's really a way, I've just noticed it :D https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Lahwaacz.bot&offset=20140406000000 (the magic is in the `offset` parameter!) -- Kynikos (talk) 13:51, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

      Update: the edit list for the 2014-05-11 cleanup is [17]. -- Kynikos (talk) 09:42, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

        Update: the edit list for the 2014-12-24 cleanup is [18]. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 13:14, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

          Update: the edit list for the 2015-02-06 cleanup is [19]. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

### Strategy for updating package templates

It is an open secret that the current strategy for updating package templates, which lies in creating a dedicated report page, is not very effective. The number of broken package links was 714 before the first cleanup almost a year ago. Today, after several successful cleanups the number is 979.

The first problem is that the report page is being noticed only a short time after announcing the cleanup and (almost) completely overlooked after a few days. Updating a wiki should be a continuous effort, but this strategy relies on announcing an event.

The second problem is that only English pages were consistently updated in the cleanups. No wonder since the events were announced only in English...

I have a proposal to solve the first problem, and partially also the second: instead of creating report pages and organizing cleanups, the broken package links could be marked directly in wiki pages, similarly to the way external links are marked with Template:Dead link. The result could look like this: pkgnamebroken link: hint where "broken link" is a link to a section with detailed instructions to fix the package link and "hint" is a short hint uniquely identifying the problem (given by the bot).

The proposal could be implemented in multiple ways:

1. By introducing a single template, e.g. "Broken package link", which would take "hint" as a parameter and produce `<sup>broken link: hint</sup>`. This template would be added immediately after the broken instance of Pkg, AUR or Grp, exactly the same way as Template:Dead link is added to broken external links.
2. By introducing a separate template for each Pkg, AUR and Grp, for example "Broken Pkg link", "Broken AUR link" and "Broken Grp link". These templates would take two parameters, the (broken) package name and the hint. Then, "Broken Pkg link" would produce `{{Pkg|pkgname}}<sup>broken link: hint</sup>` and so on.

So far I'm for the second way, which should be more favourable to the bot.

The advantage of this strategy is that broken package links and hints are continuously visible to everybody reading the wiki page, which are presumably people most interested in the topic at the moment, while maintainers can still easily go through full lists generated by Special:WhatLinksHere. Also, I would not have to announce events :)

Of course I'm still open to other suggestions on solving the above problems, or any other if I missed something.

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

  I totally support this, although method 1. looks cleaner to me, because:
  - It makes it clearer and more natural for users how to fix the template (just remove the message Vs fix the template name AND remove the message).
  - It's consistent with Template:Dead link.
  Why would method 2. "be more favourable to the bot"?
  — Kynikos (talk) 00:51, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

    The second method would only add checking additional templates. The first method would need checking for an adjacent template, which could be tricky to implement. I haven't tried it yet though, in the end it may be equally easy to the second method. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 07:59, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

      Other thing is that one of the mistakes when using AUR/Pkg/Grp templates is invalid number of parameters, e.g. [20]. If the additional parameters are to be preserved and not automatically removed by the bot, this would be impossible to mark using the second way. Well, almost impossible, we could still set the hint using a named parameter, but it would be really unclear how the link marked this way should be "fixed". So we should definitely use the first method. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 19:32, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

        Regarding your last point, I think those instances are very rare and editors will figure how to fix the link/sentence correctly (once they did the tricky part of finding where the package went). In my view this should not deter from using method 2, if there are any doubts method 1 with the bot might be problematic (over time).
        Either method would be great. One suggestion regarding the current report pages: How about still producing them additionally, but onto a static page (overwritten on next run, noting a schedule, e.g. quarterly, on top)? Reason: Particularly if an editor wants to fix articles of a language, Special:WhatLinksHere is unwieldy to swim through for articles in the language. --Indigo (talk) 10:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

          I could certainly still produce the reports. Also being it a static page, the updating could be done automatically similarly to ArchWiki:Statistics (so far I have created the report pages manually).
          I have implemented the first method in the bot script today. Since it has taken me almost half a day, it was probably not "equally easy" to the second method, but I think it works quite well and safely now. Template:Broken package link is now created and its "broken link" link points to #Broken package links, feel free to improve both.
          I was also thinking about how to integrate #Surrounding link text into #Broken package links, maybe the link to the bot's "contributions" with fixed date should be automatically put somewhere on each run? This task also depends too much on context, so the links like [21] are not very useful. In a way, it is already marked on the pages, because the link points e.g. to AUR and the context says otherwise. Also, we probably don't have the workforce to do systematic checking on this task, so is it even worth to include these instructions/links?
          -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:59, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

            Sorry I did not mean to incur an extra manual task regarding the static page, just recalled how helpful it is to do the task systematically. It is related to your question about a run result page of the bot though. For cross-checking the bot's contributions for consistency we can filter like you do above and that should be enough imo. To work on the content, a bot result page probably would require manual transformation like the current method again. So, not required but an option.
            Regarding the template: I would leave out "the hint" because the sup-text gets too long and breaks text badly on small resolutions. "Broken link" should be enough, not? Also I would let "Broken link" link itself to Template:Broken_package_link. This way we can change the link to the instructions (#Broken_package_links) noted there in case they move (e.g. to ArchWiki:Contributing) at a later point, or we decide to expand the instructions in the template itself a little, without needing a bot run over existing broken links again. --Indigo (talk) 22:45, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

              I actually like your idea about the report page. Don't worry about the manual work, it can all be automated :) The report page could also include some statistics that can be collected during the update, e.g. how many broken links are there per language/in total.
              I think that it is important to include the hint, except for the obvious "package not found", which is included only for consistency (and because the template would otherwise end with the `: ]` sequence). It may be silly that the hint is longer than the package name (the message "invalid number of template parameters" is probably too long anyway), but the only alternative I can think of is using some cryptic abbreviations like "PNF" for "package not found", which would be explained among other instructions pointed to by the "broken link" link.
              Having the instructions on this page has the advantage that it is linked from the navigation bar on the left, whereas Template:Broken package link would not be as easily discovered "by accident". The template page should serve mainly as a description of the template itself and just link to the instructions, so I'd leave it this way. Of course if the instructions are moved, the link in the template can be updated accordingly.
              -- Lahwaacz (talk) 15:32, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

                (I was writing this while Lahwaacz was writing his post above, and he saved before me, but I think this comment can still be useful)
                Well done Lahwaacz for implementing method 1.
                The problem of grouping broken links by language would IMO be more naturally solved with localized Template:Broken package link templates, instead of using a report: it would be easy to add this feature to the bot.
                The problem of the context wording is clearly unsolvable automatically, but for completeness I would mention it briefly in #Broken package links. I don't think adding any links is going to be of any usefulness; in theory a list of the changes could indeed be maintained in a report, and the entries stricken whenever each link's surrounding text is manually checked to be mentioning the correct location of the package; I'm not sure how popular such a list would be though, and the text would also be fixed anyway by casual users whenever they notice the inconsistency while reading the article. An alternative is using the bot to only always add the broken link template, even when the package template could be updated automatically, letting instead the users do all the actual updates manually; this method could be integrated with Wiki Monkey's editor assistant, which would complete the template updates in the editor, but still allow checking the changes before saving (already implemented there).
                About leaving out "the hint", maybe we could instead remove "broken link: " and move the link to "the hint". Would adding a light-red background to "the hint" help having it recognized as a link status template, even if "broken link: " isn't there anymore? But still, this method would make the template inconsistent with Template:Dead link, unless we want to update that one too.
                If we want the link to ArchWiki:Requests#Broken package links to be flexible in case we want to move the instructions somewhere else, I'd say the most natural way would be to use a redirect like Broken package link that we can point to wherever we want.
                — Kynikos (talk) 15:50, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

## Bot requests

Here, list requests for repetitive, systemic modifications to a series of existing articles to be performed by a wiki bot.

Category:

- ArchWiki